Hi everyone! Welcome back to the Basin and Towel podcast! I’m your host, Pastor Chris Cahill. If you’re a pastor or church worker or in some type of ministry, I hope that the Basin and Towel podcast can help you fill in some gaps between ministry theory and practice.
Let's get started.
This is the fifth episode in a series about the conversations I’m having with our leadership at Christ the King Lutheran Church, where I serve as pastor. I’ve been thinking seriously about retirement and what that might mean for me and for our congregation. I hope these conversations will help us to plan together for the transition from this current ministry to the ministry of the next pastor.
Our conversations are based on the book titled “NEXT: Pastoral Succession that Works.” (As always in this series, in the shownotes I’ve included links for the book as well as for the ministries of both Zach and Mark Zehnder). In today’s episode, I want to focus on chapter six, “Resigning ‘Young’ to Start Another Ministry - and does the outgoing pastor always need to leave town?”
CHAPTER 6: “Resigning ‘Young’ to Start Another Ministry - and does the outgoing pastor always need to leave town?”
Let’s think about how these two topics influenced the history of the church that I’ve been serving for 34 years - Christ the King Lutheran Church in Lodi, Ohio.
This church was a mission plant that begain in 1980. Its first pastor was the Rev. Paul Rist, who was here for nine years. By all accounts (and my personal knowledge), he was a good pastor, friendly and engaging with the people, and the people who came and stayed liked him and one another, and the church grew.
But after about ten years here he received and accepted a call to another ministry, in the Pittsburgh area. I think he was not even 40 years old at the time - so, one of those pastors who “resign young to start another ministry.” When I came to Christ the King from the church I served in Chigago I was not even 40 years old - so again, one of those pastors who “resign young to start another ministry.” Granted, we both left the ministry of one congregation to go to an established ministry in another congregation, but for each of us it was a new start in a new place in a new ministry.
Now, I haven’t made it a secret here at Christ the King that I served in my first church for four years, and in my second church for five years, before I accepted the call to come to Christ the King, and have been here for 34 years. It’s possible that all three churches looked at my personal profile and thought “Wow! He’s still a young guy - maybe he’ll be here for a long time!” In fact, if that’s what people in the first two churches thought, it wasn’t very long until I disappointed them. And in fact, in our denomination quite a few pastors move after a few years, especially in the early years of their ministry.
But some of us don’t - I’ve known a couple of men in my seminary class from 1980 who have spent their entire ministry in one congregation. I’ve known several more who, like me, bounced a couple of times and have since settled down to be in the same place for decades. So one thing it would be helpful for congregations to understand is this: when you’re prayerfully considering calling a pastor, you just can’t predict how long his ministry among you will be.
This chapter suggests that there are several “pros” and several “cons” for staying long in a ministry. I won’t mention all of them, just three of each that I’ve personally observed or experienced.
Here are the PROS:
Growth. The authors say “while longevitiy doesn’t guarantee growth, growth rarely happens without a long-term leader.” (p. 96) I’ve seen both sides of this coin in our District, and in neighboring districts.
Effectiveness. We’d all hope that life in a Christian congregation wouldn’t come down to a battle of wits between the pastor and some members - but sometimes it does. And we’d all hope that it wouldn’t come down to the pastor and some members playing nasty games against one another constantly - but sometimes it does. But like the TV series “Survivor” with its subtitle “Outwit - outplay - outlast”, this “Pro” of long-term ministry says that a key to effectiveness is to just outlast the opponents and the critics - to weather the storms long enough for them to blow over and see clear skies ahead.
Long-term discipleship. I’ve said this several times at Christ the King - one of the great joys of being the pastor here for so long is that there are people who were elementary school kids when I got here, whom I confirmed, later married, still later I baptized their kids, and still later I confirmed those kids! Being able to witness, and be part of, a multi-generational ministry over the years is truly heartwarming!
Addressing deep issues. Sometimes a church has, or develops, issues that can’t be resolved in one or two prayer meetings - it may take years of patient care and steadfast presence to resolve those issues. And sometimes there are deeper issues in the wider community, and it helps to have a pastor who is recognized and respected by community leaders and others because they have seen him involved and around for years.
Long-term change. It’s been said (by “somebody”) that changing the course of a church’s ministry is like changing the course of a huge container ship - it’s a long, slow process that requires a lot of space and a lot of focus over time. And it helps to have the same person at the helm the whole time, too, to keep the course steady until the ship / church is going in the desired direction. And in the church, sometimes it’s actually helpful to have somebody say “we’ve never done that here before” because whatever “that” is doesn’t align with the church’s long-held mission, vision, and values.
Alright, enough of the PROs. We should talk about the CONs
Graying congregation and (graying donor base)
It’s been clear to many of us at Christ the King that the folks who were my age (roughly) when I came as pastor are still the same folks - we’re all 34 years older! The Sunday School that used to overflow every cramped meeting space those decades ago, is now less than 12 kids. Our kids have grown up, married, got jobs, moved away from the area, and have kids of their own. A church can get depressed over that - or like Christ the King more often, we enjoy sharing grandchildren stories and pictures with each other. One of our values is “Acceptance” - and when somebody’s grandkids show up in church, we’re glad to see them (and we chuckle at rather than scold their “antics”). Is there a chance that will change, and we’ll see younger families coming to the church? Time will tell.
Calcification. The dark side of what I said before (“we’ve never done that here before”) is, of course, the implied second half of the sentence “. . . and we’re only going to do it over my dead body!” We can bemoan the disappearance of Blockbuster video stores or the shrinking brick-and-mortar retail chains, but the social landscape is constantly changing, and businesses who don’t adjust get left in the dust. Something similar may be said about churches. In order for the original Apostles to spread the Gospel, they had to start preaching to Gentiles, not just Jews. In order to reach the Gentiles more effectively, they had to leave Israel and go into the world. What might Christ the King have to do in the future in order to reach the people of our community and world more effectively? This part of the story still needs to be written.
Habituation or lost effectiveness. I was assigned right out of the seminary to my first church. I wasn’t there too long when I noticed that one of the high lights in the sanctuary was out. I said to the congregation’s chairman and trustee, “the light in the sanctuary needs to be replaced - who’s in charge of that?” Their answer was “Pastor K and his son used to change those lights by putting long, heavy boards across several pews, and then a 12-foot stepladder on the boards.” My wet-behind-the-ears, but still perceptive comment, was, “Pastor K and his son are no longer here, so who’s gonna do it now? And don’t look at me.” Sometimes, churches get to the point where some things have happened in the same way for so long that nobody knows what else to do. I wonder what some of those things are at Christ the King? (Actually, I have my own mental list - but what’s on your list?)
So those are the Pros and Cons of long term ministry. But wait! There’s more!
This chapter suggests a number of reasons why pastors might move on “early,” without waiting for retirement or another call. I’m not going to discuss them here, just to list them so that you’re aware of some of these possibilities:
So the authors of NEXT suggest some ways to honor and support the pastor’s wife as he’s leaving (here are three):
Let's get started.
This is the fifth episode in a series about the conversations I’m having with our leadership at Christ the King Lutheran Church, where I serve as pastor. I’ve been thinking seriously about retirement and what that might mean for me and for our congregation. I hope these conversations will help us to plan together for the transition from this current ministry to the ministry of the next pastor.
Our conversations are based on the book titled “NEXT: Pastoral Succession that Works.” (As always in this series, in the shownotes I’ve included links for the book as well as for the ministries of both Zach and Mark Zehnder). In today’s episode, I want to focus on chapter six, “Resigning ‘Young’ to Start Another Ministry - and does the outgoing pastor always need to leave town?”
CHAPTER 6: “Resigning ‘Young’ to Start Another Ministry - and does the outgoing pastor always need to leave town?”
Let’s think about how these two topics influenced the history of the church that I’ve been serving for 34 years - Christ the King Lutheran Church in Lodi, Ohio.
This church was a mission plant that begain in 1980. Its first pastor was the Rev. Paul Rist, who was here for nine years. By all accounts (and my personal knowledge), he was a good pastor, friendly and engaging with the people, and the people who came and stayed liked him and one another, and the church grew.
But after about ten years here he received and accepted a call to another ministry, in the Pittsburgh area. I think he was not even 40 years old at the time - so, one of those pastors who “resign young to start another ministry.” When I came to Christ the King from the church I served in Chigago I was not even 40 years old - so again, one of those pastors who “resign young to start another ministry.” Granted, we both left the ministry of one congregation to go to an established ministry in another congregation, but for each of us it was a new start in a new place in a new ministry.
Now, I haven’t made it a secret here at Christ the King that I served in my first church for four years, and in my second church for five years, before I accepted the call to come to Christ the King, and have been here for 34 years. It’s possible that all three churches looked at my personal profile and thought “Wow! He’s still a young guy - maybe he’ll be here for a long time!” In fact, if that’s what people in the first two churches thought, it wasn’t very long until I disappointed them. And in fact, in our denomination quite a few pastors move after a few years, especially in the early years of their ministry.
But some of us don’t - I’ve known a couple of men in my seminary class from 1980 who have spent their entire ministry in one congregation. I’ve known several more who, like me, bounced a couple of times and have since settled down to be in the same place for decades. So one thing it would be helpful for congregations to understand is this: when you’re prayerfully considering calling a pastor, you just can’t predict how long his ministry among you will be.
This chapter suggests that there are several “pros” and several “cons” for staying long in a ministry. I won’t mention all of them, just three of each that I’ve personally observed or experienced.
Here are the PROS:
Growth. The authors say “while longevitiy doesn’t guarantee growth, growth rarely happens without a long-term leader.” (p. 96) I’ve seen both sides of this coin in our District, and in neighboring districts.
Effectiveness. We’d all hope that life in a Christian congregation wouldn’t come down to a battle of wits between the pastor and some members - but sometimes it does. And we’d all hope that it wouldn’t come down to the pastor and some members playing nasty games against one another constantly - but sometimes it does. But like the TV series “Survivor” with its subtitle “Outwit - outplay - outlast”, this “Pro” of long-term ministry says that a key to effectiveness is to just outlast the opponents and the critics - to weather the storms long enough for them to blow over and see clear skies ahead.
Long-term discipleship. I’ve said this several times at Christ the King - one of the great joys of being the pastor here for so long is that there are people who were elementary school kids when I got here, whom I confirmed, later married, still later I baptized their kids, and still later I confirmed those kids! Being able to witness, and be part of, a multi-generational ministry over the years is truly heartwarming!
Addressing deep issues. Sometimes a church has, or develops, issues that can’t be resolved in one or two prayer meetings - it may take years of patient care and steadfast presence to resolve those issues. And sometimes there are deeper issues in the wider community, and it helps to have a pastor who is recognized and respected by community leaders and others because they have seen him involved and around for years.
Long-term change. It’s been said (by “somebody”) that changing the course of a church’s ministry is like changing the course of a huge container ship - it’s a long, slow process that requires a lot of space and a lot of focus over time. And it helps to have the same person at the helm the whole time, too, to keep the course steady until the ship / church is going in the desired direction. And in the church, sometimes it’s actually helpful to have somebody say “we’ve never done that here before” because whatever “that” is doesn’t align with the church’s long-held mission, vision, and values.
Alright, enough of the PROs. We should talk about the CONs
Graying congregation and (graying donor base)
It’s been clear to many of us at Christ the King that the folks who were my age (roughly) when I came as pastor are still the same folks - we’re all 34 years older! The Sunday School that used to overflow every cramped meeting space those decades ago, is now less than 12 kids. Our kids have grown up, married, got jobs, moved away from the area, and have kids of their own. A church can get depressed over that - or like Christ the King more often, we enjoy sharing grandchildren stories and pictures with each other. One of our values is “Acceptance” - and when somebody’s grandkids show up in church, we’re glad to see them (and we chuckle at rather than scold their “antics”). Is there a chance that will change, and we’ll see younger families coming to the church? Time will tell.
Calcification. The dark side of what I said before (“we’ve never done that here before”) is, of course, the implied second half of the sentence “. . . and we’re only going to do it over my dead body!” We can bemoan the disappearance of Blockbuster video stores or the shrinking brick-and-mortar retail chains, but the social landscape is constantly changing, and businesses who don’t adjust get left in the dust. Something similar may be said about churches. In order for the original Apostles to spread the Gospel, they had to start preaching to Gentiles, not just Jews. In order to reach the Gentiles more effectively, they had to leave Israel and go into the world. What might Christ the King have to do in the future in order to reach the people of our community and world more effectively? This part of the story still needs to be written.
Habituation or lost effectiveness. I was assigned right out of the seminary to my first church. I wasn’t there too long when I noticed that one of the high lights in the sanctuary was out. I said to the congregation’s chairman and trustee, “the light in the sanctuary needs to be replaced - who’s in charge of that?” Their answer was “Pastor K and his son used to change those lights by putting long, heavy boards across several pews, and then a 12-foot stepladder on the boards.” My wet-behind-the-ears, but still perceptive comment, was, “Pastor K and his son are no longer here, so who’s gonna do it now? And don’t look at me.” Sometimes, churches get to the point where some things have happened in the same way for so long that nobody knows what else to do. I wonder what some of those things are at Christ the King? (Actually, I have my own mental list - but what’s on your list?)
So those are the Pros and Cons of long term ministry. But wait! There’s more!
This chapter suggests a number of reasons why pastors might move on “early,” without waiting for retirement or another call. I’m not going to discuss them here, just to list them so that you’re aware of some of these possibilities:
- Some have a “holy discontent” and don’t stay anywhere for very long.
- Some are “runners” - they’re either running to something else, or away from something else, or both.
- Some get burned out.
- Some just change - after all people change, and sometimes churches don’t change with them.
- Some thrive better at planting than at maintaining - even Saint Paul acknowledged that he was a planter, not a waterer or a harvester.
- Some have or develop a mismatch with the call. Our friend Wayne once told me that he was at a pastors’ conference where a Ministerial Health guy started his one-hour time segment by asking the pastors to get into small groups and discuss this question: “Is the bus you’re on the one you bought the ticket for?” - and then sat down for the rest of the hour.
- Some are outgrown by their congregation. A pastor whose ministry style is a one-man operation may quickly be overwhelmed if his congregation grows too big, too quickly. If he’s not agile enough to make the switch to a team-style ministry, his most effective course of action may just be to leave before he gets in over his head.
- Some shift to a new ministry paradigm and leave before they cause division in their churches. It seems to me that this takes a lot of courage and even brutal honesty for a man to admit that "if I stay, there’s gonna be a trainwreck” - but sometimes that may be what needs to be done.
- Some have private family issues. Another time for courage and honesty (maybe not the brutal type).
- Some have an almost complete lack of self-awareness. When I was still a vicar (intern) I knew a neighboring pastor who was one of these guys. He was so intent on being able to say that he would celebrate 50 years in active ordained ministry that he was oblivious to the harm he was causing as the congregation dwindled to nothing.
- “Outgoing pastors who continue to hang around usually remain much more in charge than they realize. . . . Their stature and shadow can remain immense.” (NEXT, page 101)
- For some, an overlap of the outgoing and incoming pastors means that honoring the past unlocks the future (but that overlap has to be done well and intentionally)
- For some, advance planning, passing the baton, and then staying away works best. This was the plan twice at our sister church Grace in Lakewood. When the church was first formed as the result of a merger, the pastors of both merging churches were greatly involved in the planning, they were both involved in the worship service of celebration for the merger, but they both passed the baton to the man who was called to pastor the new church (one of them moved away entirely, the other stayed in the area but stayed away from the church completely for most of that first year of that new pastor’s ministry. That new pastor has always said how much he appreciated that).
So the authors of NEXT suggest some ways to honor and support the pastor’s wife as he’s leaving (here are three):
- “Listen by an exit interview or another process that gives dignity to the person and role;
- Design a special farewell gift or experience tailored to the outgoing spouse’s personality; and
- Create a setting so that the outgoing and incoming spouses can meanigfully interact with each other.” (p. 110)
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